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Creating a Culture of Humility in Nursing Education

Struggling in nursing school? will skyrocket your grades 🚀

Nursing education

can be challenging to navigate for any student.  One of the most common emails we get from students concerns the frustrations and doubts that surround nursing school.

Today I interview Susan DuPont RN BSN who will be joining the NRSNG team as a content editor and creator.

Susan had a stressful journey into nursing.

After being kicked off the floor by her clinical instructor and told that she would never make it as a nurse, Susan rose to the challenge to become an Emergency Room nurse and preceptor.

We can all agree that there is an element of pride in the culture surrounding nursing education.  Professors, preceptors, managers, and nurses can be slow to admit fault or lack of knowledge.

In this episode we discuss the importance of changing this culture and creating a new culture of humility and community within nursing education and nursing as a whole.

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Podcast Transcription

Welcome to The NRSNG show by, my name is John Haws, RNCCRN, student nurse mentor, and your biggest fan. In each episode, we bring you an inspiring person or message to help you uncover success as a nurse and in life; we’re all in this together. Thank you for spending some time with me today.


Now let the show begin, my fellow nurses.


What is going on, what is going on? This is John with here today to introduce you to another rock star member of the NRSNG team. I’m so excited, pleased, and humbled to be able to share with you the people that will be working with us here at This is the best minds in nursing right now.


With these individuals, we are going to be able to provide you with so many tools, confidence, and everything you need to succeed in nursing school, the NCLEX, and in life as a nurse.


So, before I get into this though, I want you to just go over to your browser, type in and you’ll get on the list to be able to get our free cheat-sheets that come out every single Friday once a week. Once you do that, i want you to come back here and listen to this episode.


Today, I’m talking to Susan DuPont; she’s an emergency room nurse. If you read the blog, you’ve probably heard of her; she’s been writing for us here at NRSNG sharing some of her experiences and stories from the emergency room. I want to introduce you to her today and I want you to guys to go over and say; go over the social medias, say hi, and share your story.


You guys: thank you so much for being apart of this team, thank you so much for being apart of our vision. I love getting the e-mails and posts from social media from you guys; I love getting everything where you guys share your story and you share how our mission has helped you. So thank you so much, I’m glad that we’ve been able to introduce you to Heather, Katy, and now I’m going to introduce you to Susan, who’s also working with us. Throughout the coming months, you’re going to see our team; you’re going to see us working with you and helping you build what we’re working on here.


So, without further adieu, here we go into the episode. Make sure you head over to


Today I’m here with Susan DuPont, RN, BSN. Susan is going to be working here at NRSNG and I just want to bring her out, introduce her to you, and let her tell her story; she has a really fascinating journey into nursing and I really want to talk about that, so thanks for coming on today, Susan.


Hi, thank you.


Tell us as little bit about yourself and then tell us a little bit about your nursing journey/what you’re doing now in nursing.


I am currently working as an emergency room nurse in a large, Detroit area hospital. I started off as an EMT and worked my way into working as a patient care technician, or tech, in the emergency department in Anarbor area, originally in the pediatric care, then emergency room, and then I went onto the adult site as well.


Before I even started that, I fell in love with anatomy and physiology as a course. I didn’t really know what I wanted to do with my life; I was all over the place. Anatomy and physiology really just grabbed my attention and it kind of moved on from there.


When you were working as an EMT and a patient care tech and stuff, what was it that lit that fire, like “I want to be a nurse”?


Well, I wanted to be a nurse before I did the EMT course, actually, but I couldn’t get into nursing school. So the one thing I could do is take an EMT course and see what this patient care thing was all about. I absolutely loved it; I still do love patient care. It was the excitement and thrill of knowing that I made a difference at the end of the day; that somebody was going to be able to go home to their family because I helped them. That’s really what fires me through my day and through the things I do as a nurse.


Absolutely. I tell people this story a lot, but when I was in my undergrad, I ended up graduating college with around 200 credits because I had no clue what I wanted to do with my life. When I took anatomy and physiology, I took the course on accident; I ended up enrolled in it somehow and I just fell in love with it. It was at that point that I knew I had to do something in healthcare; I had to be surrounded by this anatomy and physiology for the rest of my life, I just didn’t know how. It took me another ten years to choose nursing.


Yeah, I originally started off … my first degree is an associate’s degree in applied science, but I was trying to get my degree in design engineering and I just realized that I absolutely hated it. So then, I decided to go on the completely opposite end and I applied to Columbia College, to their dance choreography program; I also loved to dance. While I was in my dance choreography program, they made me take an anatomy and physiology course, which is when I really started to realize that I love A and P, I just do.


No, that’s awesome. Yeah.


That’s when I started to go down the nursing career.


That’s cool; the fact that you took a roundabout way gives you … I feel like the fact that I’ve been and worked in different areas, arenas, and fields helps you relate with patients even more, in some ways.




Especially with diverse populations like UC. In the ED, you see so many different kinds of people everyday.




So how did you get that first job as a nurse in the emergency room?


Well, I struggled a lot with getting a nursing job. I graduated December of 2013, licensed May of 2014, and I spent that next year of 2014 searching for a job. I applied to all the med-surgery floors because I’m sure, as a lot of everybody else has heard, that you have to start in med-surgery; you need to be starting off in the trenches or however.


Mm-hmm (affirmative).


I applied everywhere, all over southern Michigan, and didn’t even get a call back from anybody; everybody kept saying “I want a year of experience”, or whatever. Off of a whim, I just decided to apply at an emergency room position and they accepted my offer and called me back within two hours of putting in the application.


No way.


That was the rest of it. I didn’t think I was ever going to be able to work in the ER for at least a few years, but I just started off in the ER.


The people that are listening to the podcast or read the blogs have probably seen your name around; you’ve been working with us and with NRSNG for a couple of months writing some blog posts, but tell us what you’re going to be doing at NRSNG and why you chose to join forces with us.


My official title is going to be Content Editor; I will be making sure that all of the content that we are putting out is 100% accurate, both medically and grammatically, as well as brainstorming what kind of content to put out. I also want to be making sure that the nursing students that we’re targeting are getting what they need from the content that we put out, so that’s going to be my base-job.


You and I first connected through a mutual friend that I had gone to school with; what was it about, when you saw me posting these jobs on Facebook and stuff, what attracted you to NRSNG?


I was talking, one day … we were shopping at target actually, a mutual friend and I, and I was talking about how I would really like to get into writing for nursing. She mentioned your name and said “You should check out his website and see what he does.” All I did was read your about page and I was hooked. I believe, to my very core, about the mission of this company. I really believe nursing does not need to be as hard as it is and I really want to make sure that we can produce empowered nurses.


I love that because that’s what it’s all about, right? It’s empowering this group of nurses, rather than all of us feeling beat down and terrible all of the time.


Absolutely. I want some excitement for the nurses because nursing is exciting and it’s so rewarding. Over my few years of being a nurse now, i guess I can say that what I’ve learned is, having a happy nurse usually leads to having a happy patient as well. Having happy patients is pretty key, I think, to life in general.


No doubt. So in talking about this, talking about wanting to empower nurses, let’s talk a little bit about your nursing journey; you’ve shared a little bit about it with me, when we talked a couple of months ago, about a specific professor during nursing school. Do you mind telling that story?


Yeah, absolutely. I didn’t really care for my nursing clinicals all that much, but what I really loved about my clinicals was the group I was with; I was in a nursing school that allowed you to stay through with your group. Had it not been for that group, I probably would have quit.


One of the nursing clinical instructors that I had wanted me to do something that I really didn’t feel was right for the patient, and I challenged her and told her that I didn’t think that was what we should do. She didn’t like that I challenged her and she told me that I would never make it as a nurse and that I should just quite right now. It was super discouraging, I thought for a moment “Wow, maybe I shouldn’t be a nurse. Am I in the wrong field?”


I’m really thankful that I didn’t quit because I absolutely love nursing and love what I do for a living. I want to make sure, especially through this company, that we can make sure things like that don’t happen because I shouldn’t have second guessed myself.


No, absolutely not. I want to ask two questions about this; first question is take us to that moment when she told you that and how did you get through that?


This happens a lot; we get e-mails like this all of the time, “Maybe I should just stop; maybe I should quit. I failed the NCLEX once, maybe I should quit,” or, “I haven’t gotten into nursing school, maybe I should give up.” What would you tell those nurses, based on your experience with that?


Well, for the specific example of what happened that day was I had a patient whose Foley had become mostly dislodged; it was sitting partially down his urethra. The Foley itself was bloody, crusty, puss was everywhere … it needed to be taken out, and so I said “We need to take this Foley out.” The nursing instructor said to me “No, we’ll just push it back in.” I said “Absolutely not. That’s a sterile procedure, to put it in in the first place. Look at the infection on this; it needs to not just be pushed back in. We need to take the saline balloon out of there and get the Foley out.” She says “Oh, it looks like you’ve been a nurse your whole life. You know more than I know, right?” She basically cut me off at the knees and I was in shock.


I wish i could say that I did some heroic thing, but I cried; I just started crying and feeling horrible about the entire thing, but I refused. She kicked me off the floor that day, telling me I was an unsafe nurse.




Yes. I went straight to my nursing dean that day and I said “Oh my god, I hope I’m not an unsafe nurse”, and they actually agreed with me, which was good.


Yeah, of course.


That was kind of what happened, but I probably didn’t handle it as well as I would have liked to. She definitely got to me that day.


Yeah, that’s interesting. So the second part of the question then, what would you tell a student that’s having that doubt that “Maybe I should just quit.”?


What I would love to tell not just someone who has that doubt, but all nursing students, is that you are a patient’s advocate, and if you wouldn’t do that to yourself or to your loved one, don’t do that to your patient; you know what’s right in your heart. So remember: even if you’re a nursing students, you can still stand up for you patients; you can still do what’s right for them. Don’t quite because there are nurses or healthcare professionals out there that don’t always choose the right thing, and you can choose the right thing. It doesn’t need to make you feel like less of a nurse or less of a healthcare professional.


Mm-hmm (affirmative). So even more specifically, how do you have that confidence? You, as a student, might’ve thought for a minute “Well, maybe she’s right.”


I did.


So what do you do in that situation? Let’s talk about the bigger picture; how do you create a generation of nursing students who have the confidence to suggest something even if they may be wrong? How do we create a culture of educators who will listen to students even if they’re wrong as the educator?


Well, that’s a very good question. I don’t know that I have the answer to that, but I would like to get the answer to that because that is the culture of nursing education and nurses in general; I think we should be building. I think that’s a problem that still happens, even on the floor. I can vouch for times when more experienced nurses have told me that I need to not be doing something a certain way because an older way is the way that it’s done. I just simply point out the new evidence-based research or whatever, but I try to make sure that everything that I have in my skill bucket is backed up by research or something that I read; make sure that you know what you’re talking about.


I think it can be hard. Even myself, personally, precepting students and stuff, sometimes it can be hard if they do suggest something and it’s like “Damn it, they’re right.”




In that moment, you have to be like “You know what? You’re probably right, let’s try that.” It can be hard; you have a couple years of experience and this new nurse comes on, something is fresh in their mind, and they do remember the right way to do it.


Hopefully, we’re playing a role in that changing culture; I hope we are. I think that’s the challenge for a lot of people going into nursing school, too; you find a question that’s clearly wrong, you go and talk to your professor about it, and it’s like “No, it’s right.” I don’t think any of us had ever been encountered by that culture before in nursing school, whether it’s just no ability to question or to ask.


Exactly. I don’t know the answer, like I was saying. It would be nice to be able to figure out a good way to be humbling to the nursing instructors or more experience nurses who may be wrong; it’s a very hard pill to swallow.


Absolutely. I’m just thinking of some of the physicians that I enjoy working with the most, and I was talking with Katy in the most recent podcast as well, that that whole sense of vulnerability, humility, and confidence; to accept our weaknesses is very hard to do, but you think about those physicians that you like working with the most, and they’re not the ones that come in, slam things down, and tell you how it’s going to be. They’re the ones that come in and respect you as a nurse.


You and I were talking about this in Portland a couple weeks ago; having people you can work with who respect you, your knowledge base, and what you can do. That really helps to grow a unit, a nursing school, or cohort. Everyone can play their role.


Well, I definitely try to go into work everyday with an open mind and attitude that says “I’m going to be learning for the rest of my life” because nursing is definitely a career where you will be learning forever. You don’t ever know everything, and so, personally, I’m willing to accept that maybe I need to learn something else; I’m always asking questions. Hopefully, that would be something that we could get our educators to do, to know that we’re a team, we’re going to make this happen together, and we’re going to use all of our knowledge bases to come up with the best answer.


Absolutely. Even from the beginning with NRSNG, I was very clear to put our e-mail and contact information everywhere so if people found an issue with what we did, it was very easy for them to bring it up; we could all grow together and continue to make resources people need.


Yeah, absolutely. That’s excellent.


One thing I wanted to talk with you about was that you didn’t pass the NCLEX on your first try.


I did not, I passed it on my second try.


So take us there, did you feel like you had prepared enough for the first time?


Well, I graduated in December of 2013 and took it, for the first time, February of 2014. I took a Kaplan course and studied every single day; I had study groups. I played that RN NCLEX game; that board game.


Oh, yeah. I have that. I actually own that, still.


I played that with my nursing group. I took a lot of the ATI questions and just felt really prepared for it.




I definitely asked a lot of the people that I worked with to explain why an answer is the way it is if I didn’t understand it, so I felt really prepared. I went in nervous, took about 90 questions, and then it shut off on me. I was like “I don’t know if this is good or bad.”


I did do the trick that everybody talks about; where you go and try to sign up again. It let me sign up and I got really discouraged at that point, but I decided that until I was told that I had not passed, I was going to take a vacation for myself.


That’s a good idea.


So I did. When I found out I didn’t pass it, I refocused my studying into instead of studying the types of questions, I studied more content-based because I felt like I had the how to answer the types of questions down, but the questions that I had gotten wrong or was pretty sure I had gotten wrong were questions that I just didn’t know the answer to at all.


Mm-hmm (affirmative).


So I went back to my content-based, which I know is against what most people say to do. I took a refresher course through Kaplan, then took it again in May and got almost exactly the same amount of questions, 90 something questions, and then it shut off. I was just petrified, but it wouldn’t let me do that little trick again. Then I passed.


That’s awesome. So I guess the reason I asked if you felt you were prepared is because, knowing you, I assumed you had prepared quite a bit; I didn’t think it was because you took a huge vacation and you just went in and failed.


Aside from right now and today when I just asked you if you passed your first time, how often have you been asked if you passed your first time?


I haven’t been.


Yeah, exactly.


Nobody asks me that whatsoever, it’s not a big issue. I did feel like it was an accomplishment that I wanted to have and I was bummed out that I didn’t have that; that I couldn’t say “I passed it on the first try.” Everybody else in my nursing group passed it on the first try but me, so I was super bummed out about it.


Nobody has asked me; nobody cares. I think a lot of nurses realize that whether you pass the NCLEX or not, it doesn’t necessarily correlate to if you’re going to be a great nurse.


Exactly. That’s what I was going to ask you; do you feel like there’s any correlation between you passing on the second try and your capacity as a nurse?


Absolutely not. Not just for me personally, but when you’re first in that “Did I pass? Did I not pass?” Or “I’m taking the NCLEX” time, and so you’re talking about it with a lot of your friends that you went to nursing school with. I know somebody who didn’t pass it; they passed it, finally, after taking it the third time. I have worked beside her and she’s an amazing nurse.




It’s never been brought up that it took her three times to pass. It’s just not a factor at all.


That nurse that does walk around the unit bragging about passing the first time with 75 questions, they’re kind of like that has-been that was varsity football player in high school and, ten years later, they’re talking about it, you know?




It doesn’t make any difference in how good you are today.




Right when you come out of nursing school, it’s hard though because that’s what everyone is talking about, you know?


Yeah, and it’s a measurement for you.




You can’t get a nursing job without it, so it’s a very important thing; it seems like the biggest thing, but once you pass it, it ends up becoming another stone that you’ve turned over. “Okay, I graduated, that was a stone. Oh, I passed the NCLEX, that was a stone I turned over. Oh, I got a job, that’s a stone I turned over.” I feel like it just started becoming little check-offs that I did.




Yeah, milestones.


Especially with you working ED, what you’re seeing, I’m assuming, has almost nothing to do with what you say in nursing school and on nursing school tests.


Correct, exactly. It is a little bit different because most of the questions, I felt, were based on “Okay, you have all the time in the world to do whatever it is that you need to do” and in the emergency room, you don’t have all the time in the world. You really need to pick what’s super important right this minute and do that life-or-death thing. Which, I know, some of the questions are aimed to that, but it’s a different mindset.


I like that you went back and actually started focusing on concepts because, from the very get-go with NRSNG, what I did in nursing school, and what I still do, I don’t believe in just learning a hack to pass a test. That’s why, with the NCLEX, it doesn’t do you a lot of good to remember steps to answer I question. In all of our courses, everything that we provide such as the podcasts, we take you to Step 1 and we make sure you understand how this works, because once you understand how something works, it will never leave you.


You and I were talking about albumen before this; once you understand albumen, you understand liver disease, osmotic pressures, analytics, and understand that it’s one piece in the puzzle instead of just trying to answer a question about osmotic pressure.


Right. I precepted a nurse just the other day and we had a patient with very high potassium. I asked her “Do you know why we’re giving glucose to a patient with high potassium as part of the cocktail?” She was like “I don’t know.” So I sat down and explained to her how insulin draws potassium and glucose across the cell wall; everything that we were giving, I was explaining to her what is actually happening in our body. Afterwards, she said “I will never again have to think about how to give this medication. I know now; this makes total sense.”


That’s the point, that’s the key; that’s how we should be learning because once you get it, you’re not memorizing something, you’re not going to accidentally forget it. You know it.


Absolutely, exactly. I think I probably annoy people that I precept; I know I annoyed some of them because they’ve been visibly irate with me sometimes, but I would say “Why, why, why, why. What is this, what are you giving them, why are you doing this?” Almost berate them with questions because I wanted to know where the weak points were that I needed to teach more on. If they could answer the question, good. If not, I would whip out another piece of printer paper and start drawing diagrams, use the patients white board, or whatever because you don’t need to know everything; you’re not expected to know everything. I wasn’t berating them to make them feel stupid, it was to say “Okay, where do we need to teach more? Where do we need to learn more so that we can be a better, stronger nurse?”


There’s certain concepts you need to understand and know. Simply using a mnemonic or something that’s going to leave your mind isn’t the best way to learn it; really, deep-diving and understanding is the way to learn it.


Yeah, absolutely.


So I’m excited for what you’re going to be doing here at NRSNG and the blog posts you’ve already written have done very well on social media, with all the stories from your emergency room experiences. Is there a story from your experiences as a nurse that really sticks out that you haven’t shared before?


Oh, boy. You know, there was this one time where we had a guy come in who had been shot in the chest and I’ve only seen it the one time; I’ve never seen it again. They cracked open his ribs and we were massaging his heart because we could not give him adequate compressions through his ribs in the way it was; so they broke it open and we massaged his heart. That was probably one of my favorite times just because I was like “Whoa, there’s the lungs. Here’s his intercostal muscles.


It was neat to actually see, in real life, all of that stuff. I had seen it on a cadaver, but not right there.


Yeah, not in an OR right there in the ED.


Yeah. It was pretty cool.


Who actually opened the chest, was it the ED physician or did they bring down the cardiothoracic or what?


It was a physician; we did it urgently. He had actually not just been shot in the chest, but he had fallen down and hit his head on the cement afterwards and had an inter-cranial bleed. So at the same time that we were doing that, we drilled a hole and put in a ventric. There was so much going on with this patient; it was so intense, but it was a super great learning experience.


See, and that’s the story that people here and they’re like “Yeah, I want to work in the emergency room. That’s pretty cool.”


Yeah. Well, probably not so great for that guy.


Well, yeah. Of course.


I told you this when we were meeting last week too, I was one of the gawkers from the ICU; the trauma pager goes off and I would go down to the bay to watch. I was one of those guys. My excuse was I had to know if it was coming to my floor; that was my excuse.


Right. Well, I think if people are thinking about working in the emergency room, there’s just a couple things you have to think about, mostly does that really excite you? Do you want to go see all of that stuff? The other thing is do you feel confident in your skills to say I can do what I need to do, right now, to help save this person? It’s exciting and then you kind of just freeze sometimes.


I’ve seen some nurses freeze in a code and you’re like “You can’t do that. You’ve got to work this code and you don’t have time to second guess that” so if you’re good under pressure, that’s definitely a place for you to be.


Yeah. So let’s talk about that just for one minute. I tell this story a lot too, but whenever I post a story or picture from an ICU with all the pumps, drips, CVHD, and all of that going on, the nursing students freak out; they freeze. They’re like “I could never do that.” What I generally tell them is “No one in their right mind would put you in that room alone today.”




You grow to that, you grow to be able to do that. So if trauma, ICU, or whatever is something you want to do, start immersing yourself in it as a student and a new nurse and just be around it so that as your skills grow, you’re the nurse that the physician is yelling at to start doing compressions or to start doing stuff so that you’re the one people can rely on when the time does come.


Yeah. Even when I had started originally, they obviously had me with a preceptor, but every single time Priority 1 was called or a trauma was called, we were going to that. We were going to be, at the very minimum, watching what was happening, asking questions, and being prepared for when I’m in that position. So it wasn’t like I was just thrown into that and I knew what to do right away; it took some time to learn. I had an amazing preceptor; you just don’t want to mess with her. She knows her business. She was amazing.


I’ll never forget, I had a patient come to my room recently and one of our techs, who we call ED specialists, came to tell me that I had this new patient in my room and he’s telling me this list of all the stuff that was wrong; it was a really intense patient. I was like “Oh my goodness” and he goes “You were precepted by Bell, you got this.” I was like “Yeah, I do. I totally have this; this is not an issue at all.”


That’s pretty cool.




That’s how my preceptor was, too. Maybe that’s why I was a bit more of an intense nurse, I guess, but it’s important; it’s good. Whenever I give people tips for what to do during your first code, the first two tips are get in and do something. At least do compressions; everyone can do compressions.


Mm-hmm (affirmative).


Number two tip is if you’re not doing anything, then get the hell out.


Yeah, get out of people’s way.


Yeah, so I guess what I mean by all that is get in there and try to get involved; there’s something that you know how to do even if it’s just handing saline syringes to the physician, just do something. Be in there and get yourself immersed in that environment. It might not even be something in ICU or ED; even on the med-surgery floor, get in on those crazy or angry patients and see how the nurse is handling. Do something, do whatever it is you can do to start getting involved in those situations.


Yeah, and you’ll be surprised what you can learn even just doing the small things and how helpful it is for the people who are running the code, or situation I should say since not everything is a code. It’s super helpful and I’ve found that the more that I showed up to things like that, the more other nurses were like “Hey, Susan. You’re someone you can count on.”


Mm-hmm (affirmative).


So it ends up putting you in a position where people want to count on you and you end up learning a lot more that way, too.


Absolutely. We’re running out of time here, but another thing I’ll say, kind of along those same lines, is that I work in a large hospital; not super large, but 600 beds or so, and even in a hospital that large, it’s still a small place. People get to know each other very quickly and if you’re making your face known on situations, being around, and being helpful, very quickly you become someone people recognize and can rely on. You want to be that person, as well.


Yeah, absolutely.


So what else would you like to tell nurses? I guess we’ve been focusing, kind of, on confidence and stuff here; what piece of advice would you give to new nurses or nursing students?


I would say my number one advice for nursing students is to work smarter, not harder. It’s okay to double up on a task and it makes things easier; try and find out what you can double up on. “Can I do two different things at once? Can I make my time here easier or faster?” You become efficient with your time, so working on that, I think, is my number one advice for nursing students, and I’ve found that a lot of my nursing instructors were trying to give me that message without understand what message they were giving me. That’s definitely the message I received.


You’re spot on there, and we talked a lot when we were all together last week about what it is to think like a nurse; that’s definitely one of those things. I actually tell my son, Taz that; you met Taz. I tell him “Work smarter, not harder, Taz. Work smarter, not harder” because it saves you a lot of time.


One of the first things I would do at the beginning of every shift is I would go into the stock room and load up every pocket I had with every supply I could think I would need for the shift. I would be overflowing ten pockets, and by the end of the shift, I was emptied.




Saving myself that extra tip or extra annoyance really made a huge difference.


Yeah, being as prepared as you possibly can. Absolutely.


Susan, I’m excited to have you onboard, I’m excited to introduce you to everybody, and you guys will be seeing Susan a lot more around here. As you can see, she’s a very knowledgeable, experienced nurse who’s going to bring a lot to the table.


I’m very excited to be working with NRSNG and I’m excited to meet the audience and give you guys what you need as nursing students.


Awesome, thank you.